Angry New York ATC argues with Aer Lingus pilot [ATC Audio]

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On July 22nd 2018 flight EI104 (A333 Reg: EI-FNG) from JFK-DUB was departing at 5:15pm local time from New York's JFK airport.
Following relatively severe weather in the New York area many aircraft on departure from the New York were requesting deviations from their routes due to the storms. This was a time of very high workload for pilots and controllers alike, as random weather deviations from planned routings can quickly throw a controller's airspace into a mess.
The crew told ATC they could not turn to the east/southeast due to a weather build-up. ATC responded by remarking that he can see only the lightest category of weather there (ATC has a weather radar in NY Tracon) and that no other aircraft had deviated from there. The Aer Lingus pilot remarks that he is just going by the equipment he has onboard. The flight, after 3 holding patterns, continued to Dublin, landing an hour late.
Audio is courtesy of Liveatc.net and edited to remove unnecessary transmissions and excess gaps in audio.

Komentáře

  • Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

    • Me John, big tree. Theres a sale at Pennys!

    • The shits gonna hit the fan.......Alright now everybody get in Crash positions.

    • Have you ever been to a Turkish bath... Wait. Shirley someone said that already.

    • 🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣😃

    • Repunzel to the tower.

  • I'd drag a knife across that atc's throat. Risking all those lives for an ego trip. People like him need to die.

  • Pilot 's voice was not clear, running his words together.

  • I landed in NY on the third of May, as a passenger on Norwegian Air Shuttle. Very windy and rainy conditions, but in my experience, "Rednose" pilots are amazing at tough landings being used to Norway's peculiar weather. We were seemingly on a long final when we felt a rather sharp turn, which is pretty unusual for European airlines. Then we heard our Captain on the tannoy system : "Ladies and gentlemen, due to the very unique way JFK Airport is run, our runway was changed at the last minute. Sorry for that rather surprising manoeuver you just experienced." Then it took us one hour to get a gate despite -or maybe because?- landing sixty minutes ahead of schedule. That airport is hell. And everybody is rude. Even ground staff to the passengers.

  • People forget ATC is a service for aircraft not the other way around.

  • 3:02 So I found out N3747A's a Harmening High Flyer, a sort of "powered parachute". What were they doing out here?

  • get rekt

  • JFK never fails to have the angriest controllers lol

  • Arrogant fuckin Incompetent ATC

  • Pilot is 100% in the right. It is always the pilots choice whether to take any risk such as weather. NYC Departure, as seems characteristic around here, acting like a dick.

  • Typical New Yorker

  • Sound like ATC dude use to work on NYSE. That's not his fault, it's all due to arrogant wall street culture which is in the length and breadth of NYC.

  • It seems like most ATC arguments come from JFK Airport

  • ATC is the 2nd eyes and ears for the pilot..but pilot is the boss,they see the weather too and they also the one that know the situations in the plane. So, the ATC guy actually made a mistakes here..poor handling.

  • Who puts them on CS-tv

  • In accordance with the FAR manuel, this controller was fired after an FAA performance review. The only words I have for this controller are...... "You got yourself into this." Just sayin'

    • +StandAloneAoi ...it has to be true, i read it on the interwebs

    • How do we know he was fired?

  • This is exactly the kind of scenario that often results in air crashes - the controller refusing to listen to the pilot, who is actually flying the plane and seeing the weather in real time. This controller is clearly out of control and very unprofessional. Hopefully, he either learned to deal with the pressures of the job or got into a different career. Saying, "this is how we do it in New York" isn't exactly comforting. Forbidding law-abiding citizens from carrying handguns so the criminals can run amuck is one of those ways New York "does it."

    • Lightshine Ministries Tbf most countries don't let anyone run around with hand guns, but anyways...

  • you gotta love these people. coming up with procedures only to not follow them while they loath the rest of the world for mispronouncing a an english word.

  • JUST LET THE JETS LAND YOU FUCKING IDIOTS

  • There are 3 major airports in the New York city area, 4 if you count Teterboro. 2 of those airports are international. The controller knows the traffic he's dealing with and none of the pilots before Aer Lingus had any issues. All pilots must fly through adverse weather conditions, better departing through it than approaching into it. In the United States: KJFK is the 6th busiest airport KERW is 15th busiest KLGA is 20th busiest Kennedy ATC was merely doing his job. Averaging close to 300 flights a day, they only have time to be safe and exact.

  • This pilot retained his composure, remained professional & respectful throughout. Even in his closing statement 👏🏾

  • I’m glad I’m a class Delta Towrer controller. Fuck all the bullshit nonsense radar crap. Especially around New York, those guys earn their money.

  • Instructions unclear, heading for the world trade center.

  • The problem hierarchy, ATC are under the impression that that have the ultimate authority when in actuality the pilots do, they are the ones at the controls with 100’s of lives behind them. ATC are there to provide a service to accommodate the pilots requirements with respect to landing their aircraft at an airport they do not call the shots they advise.

  • He was trying to make a lucky clover 🍀 😂

  • My boss will beat your boss later Good Day!

  • What the hell is "GREKI"?

    • Navigational waypoint pilots use in flight planning

  • When I flew small/med twins into KATL Atlanta in the late evenings, it looked like a long string of pearls being vectored into the airport. Speed talking x2. You got your call and if you missed it there was a dam good chance you would be kicked out and sent to the back of the line. Flying in a Cessna 402 or even Seneca sandwiched betreen ll-10LLs, 747s etc and constantly being told to "Keep your speed up" was stressful. Cannot imagine either LAX or near this area.

  • The pilot has the final say concerning the safety of his aircraft.

  • ATC is a fuckin #dickHead

  • A New York f*** you and good bye from the controller.

  • Unlike all of the arm-chair pilots here, I have to side with the ATC on this one. New York airspace has very tight tolerances, which creates major problems when there's bad weather. Many times pilots will stay grounded if they do not feel the departure flight path conditions are safe. This pilot knew what the weather conditions were like, he had the latest ATIS, he knew the SID route. He should not have accepted clearance until he felt it was safe to fly. But he decided to take off, thinking he could fly his plane anywhere he wanted and that the departure controller would be okay with that.

  • Tell Comrade di Blasio that Vladimir says hi.

  • New Yorkers are dicks no matter what. Enjoy your 54% income tax raping.

  • ATC does not always know better and they certainly aren’t the ones flying the plane and seeing areas of intense thunderstorms. Kudos to 104 heavy.

  • Shamrock 104 Heavy had terrible transmissions. I couldn't understand a word that he said.

  • ATC and their wayward union need to be monitored more closely by the government as these people think they have the most stressful job in government, and in reality they are way down the totem pole. What other union in government has sleep breaks in their contract, while top controllers take in 150,000 a year with overtime. Do you people really believe that your under more stress than intensive care nurses at VA medical centers? If the country were aware of the hundred perks that you get for lining up planes? This controller talking to this Irish pilot is an example of a union completely out of control. They are training people in Oklahoma that will be lucky to make 45 grand a year while you crybabies are all grandfathered in at your obscene payscale.

  • This illustrates the extremely difficult job of a controller at a busy commercial airport. The controller feels the heavy butden of keeping air traffic safe, while at the same time the individual pilot feels the equally heavy responsibility of keeping the aircraft safe. Sometimes there’s a rub. Probably unavoidable.

  • Delta paka fuka la-di-da heavy metal wanky wank. When does this bollocks stop?

  • wtf is that mic quality

  • JFK controllers are the worst. So rude. Heathrow director at Swanick are probably the best in the world.

  • I am here to find A GREKI and how I can obtain this creature?

  • The NY controllers are notoriously rude...some are decent, but the majority are really rude. I know that ATCs have a very difficult job...and most handle it very well. The NY folks just seem to let their rotten attitudes show through.

  • That ATC is an ass; sooo inconvenienced by the pilot, who only transgression was protecting his passengers. . Tries to justify being an ahole after told his boss would be notified. A power-tripper like this needs to be out of the tower.

  • PIC (Pilot in Command) chose safety over attitude (and in this case, altitude). He didn't give a shit if 200 aircraft made it through. Much respect.

  • Oh my God.... That controller should be on report immediatly. Very unproffesional. Right so dat the Aer Lingus pilot let his boss contact them.

  • GO PADDY GO

  • Seems like the ATC took a typical random New York City asshole off the streets of Manhattan and gave him a job at JFK.

  • This is why I don't like flying into New York.

  • ATC: "Your wife 200 KILO - HEAVY." Pilot: "WHAT!" ATC: "Sorry, Sir. Wrong frequency."

  • Does this air controller thing the pilot is flying an F16?

  • Could you imagine if this was a Air China flight instead. 🤬

  • And this is why i fly Aer Lingus, perfect safety record and top pro's in the cockpit. ATC controller your'e in the wrong trade

  • My dream airline to fly for!

  • Who recorded all this crap lmao at you

  • i doubt the pilot -wanted- to do a bunch of circles right over jfk

  • Don't care what any arrogant controller thinks, at the end the captain is the one responsible for his passengers and crew. If he doesn't like the weather ahead then it's too bad for the controller. The pilot did the right thing, so what if the others made it, if there was a surge and the plane was damaged or even crashed I wonder how mr. dipshit would of felt. Never , EVER, let ACT bully you into doing what you think or know is not safe. Remember, it's easy to give orders when you're sitting comfortably and safe on a seat, while telling people to risk there lifes cause you're in a hurry or are backed up on line...kudos to the Capt... and a big f-u to the controller.

  • I would of been pissed if I was in that pilots position

  • Picked the wrong week to quit doing coke and PCP to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • This air traffic controller did nothing wrong here. JFK, weather around the airport. He provided a departure clearance, plane took off...He advised the same departure route for every aircraft (planes smaller than this one) we know this is a large jet because he's identified as "Heavy". These sizes of aircraft are LESS susceptible to turbulence. The pilot did not want to take it, even after ATC confirmed no other aircraft had any issues during what is surely a busy day...puts him into a holding pattern. He puts several other aircraft on the GREKI departure and then had him take the same route to get out of the airport airspace.

  • The shamrock guy should learn not to eat his mic when doing R/T

  • Pilot is an asshole. What if the atc then went on to make a mistake because he was distracted by the bullying move of the pilot at the end. If the pilot had been professional he could’ve said goodbye and taken up his complaint later through the appropriate channels.

  • The type of ATC is intimidating. This way of talking to pilots has proven to be a factor in aircraft crashes. IF THE PILOT SAYS I DON’T WANT TO GO INTO THE WEATHER CELL!!!! Mr ATC man, you have to accommodate his request, it’s his aircraft and his responsibility to keep it safe. Well done Mr Pilot.

    • He did accommodate. But had to take him out of line. 🤷‍♂️

  • Oh dear, Irish? 🤪

  • Oh dear, Irish.

  • The worst part is when the controller said everyone else went that way why won’t you!!! As if the WX environment is always standing still, you should Seriously Trust the report of the guy ahead of you if it was worse than what your radar is showing and Avoid, but never distrust what your radar is showing or take it lightly simply because someone else flew and made it ahead of you, an example was the delta L1011 crash into DFW, a light Aircraft was ahead of them and didn’t experience the severe wind shear that caused the crash, never count on a flight trajectory just because someone ahead of you made it, trust your instruments and displays, the pilot did a fantastic job doing what he was convinced with as safe, and at the same time remaining calm and closing the argument with a fantastic, brief, and down to the point wining comments that showed how professional he was, and how ignorant and reckless the controller is, finally thanks for posting the video, it can be very beneficial in CRM lessons demonstrating proper decision making and pilot/controller assertiveness,

  • The pilot was in the right. "my instruments are showing." Surface radar can only see so close to the ground. If the closer radar detects something, even a false positive, then the pilot has the discretion. There's nothing more than a bit of extra work for the controller here, and everyone is extra safe.

  • If the pilot says he can’t do it he can’t do it! They fly the aircraft and we fly the radar. Many airlines have different perimeters for weather avoidance. As a retired ATC I would suggest routes thru weather but never penalize aircraft for not accepting the route.

  • THe decision is ALWAYS on the Captain, unless the ATC guy is sat there on board with him!

    • +Loll Ger. How about this and then don't waste any more time commenting... FUCK OFF!!

    • Vladimir Putin it’s not sarcasm. Look it up buddy then tell me who’s bright.

    • +Loll Ger. It's called SARCASM, but if you're not very bright I guess you struggle to understand the comment. LOL!

    • Vladimir Putin in which case the decision would still be “on the captain” 👩‍✈️ lol

  • This ATC is in a dillusion if he thinks that he can for a pilot through a storm cell. The Capt. Felt it was unsafe to proceed and decided change his approach, he has every right to do so. Furthermore just because other aircraft flew through the cell, means nothing at all. Storm cells can change in a second, what is safe at 1.34 pm might be unsafe at 1.37 pm. This Capt. Was correct in his decision, he put his passengers and crews safety first. Congratulations Sir.

  • I agree with ATC. You can say unable but you better expect a hold, vectors, rerouting when you do that. The pilot had unreasonable expectations here

  • Dude ATC was such a Dick

  • The Aer Lingus guy was in the right on this one.

  • that controller sucks!

  • Anyone knows what happened to this unbearably rude controller? He should be fired for his unprofessionalism.

  • an angry New Yorker, what surprise!

  • Pedal faster

  • Controller was a jackass. A pilot is reporting weather and unable to do what you've asked him to do. It doesn't matter than a thousand other aircraft didn't have a problem with it; this ONE did and, based upon the picture in this video, he was right to do so. Controllers do NOT have a panoramic, 360-degree, all-encompassing view of the weather. Just because a radar's showing light rain at ground level, 3000 feet, or aircraft altitude, doesn't mean you're seeing what he's seeing both visually and on real-time sensors. That he accepted a departure doesn't mean that the weather can't change in a matter of 60 seconds. Pilot should have filed a HATR upon landing and let the FAA sort it out rather than argue with the controller.

  • Ill never be able to fiqure out why a plane would have to circle for over ten minutes,,, should be first come first serve,,, so if a plane gets to its destination and lets say their are three planes already their b4 him 1st plane lands and takes a minute and a half on run a way 2nd plane lands minute and a half on run a way 3minutes 3rd plane lands 4 min30 seconds 4th plane lands 6minutes 5th plane lands 7 minutes and thirty seconds.. with this being said and you watch an airplane land it only takes them thirty seconds to get to the end of the runa way...

  • Great job by the pilot, the tough guy at the computer screen can get bent. Douche.

  • The pilot real asshole

  • Omg this kind of thing happens? CS-tv has EVERYTHING!

  • I can believe it's not his first day in an aircraft. That mic sounds like it's 100 years old. Awful!

  • I can't believe in the modern age, these "professionals" are still using what appears to be analogue radios. Why is that? Like, you can afford a massive plane, but no HD digital voice? We just have to deal with the static forevermore? At very least you could use instant messaging. That's easier to understand than freaking radio static cos you get all the messages in writing.

  • This kind of BS ATC will be replaced by AI and robots very soon saving us all a lot of grief and money.

  • Send the controller the bill for the fuel.

  • I have flown into new york many times. The atc there are crazy. They are not professional.

  • Everyone in here bashing the ATC. One thing to remember. All the other planes took the same heading into the weather this pilot was seeing. NY airports have one heading in or maybe two. And one or two out.

  • Hey Shamrock, F u😤😁

  • With regard to pilot-ATC verbal radio communications, for safety’s sake there should be NO EDITORIALIZING OR EXTRANEOUS WORDS EXCHANGED! Save that for the Internet, gentlemen! The “sterile cockpit” principle should apply to communications with ATC. As a passenger, I don’t want the people who are flying my airplane to get emotionally distracted by ground-to-air rants.

  • new yorkers

  • Typical NY controller being a complete tool

  • Ah...yeah. This is bitch socket to butthurt, redirect to 040. Bitchsocket this is butthurt confirm an alternate route? Butthurt to bitchsocket nope, butt their is a shut up ya big baby ridge route at 040. Over.

  • Arrogant controller.

  • ATC is one of the most toughest jobs in the world. Definitely not for people who counts 1+1=5

  • God why does the shamrock pilot sound like he has no nose

  • New Yorkers are assholes

  • I'm with the pilot on this

  • Great pilot!!! Well done!!!

  • I just wonder if the two bosses talked about that or if was an empty concluding comment. I guess we will never know.