Angry New York ATC argues with Aer Lingus pilot [ATC Audio]

čas přidán 24. 07. 2018
On July 22nd 2018 flight EI104 (A333 Reg: EI-FNG) from JFK-DUB was departing at 5:15pm local time from New York's JFK airport.
Following relatively severe weather in the New York area many aircraft on departure from the New York were requesting deviations from their routes due to the storms. This was a time of very high workload for pilots and controllers alike, as random weather deviations from planned routings can quickly throw a controller's airspace into a mess.
The crew told ATC they could not turn to the east/southeast due to a weather build-up. ATC responded by remarking that he can see only the lightest category of weather there (ATC has a weather radar in NY Tracon) and that no other aircraft had deviated from there. The Aer Lingus pilot remarks that he is just going by the equipment he has onboard. The flight, after 3 holding patterns, continued to Dublin, landing an hour late.
Audio is courtesy of Liveatc.net and edited to remove unnecessary transmissions and excess gaps in audio.

Komentáře

  • Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

  • ATC GET ON VATSIM I SWEAR😂😂😂

  • The pilot was correct the controller was putting schedule ahead of safety and the pilots put safety ahead of schedule. This should be used as a lesson.

  • ATC bull shit. I know how that feels. Controller was correct, but his tone of voice wasn't appropriate.

  • I've said it before and I'll say it again. Not to be all red white and blue but EASA licensing and pilot programs are such garbage. Churns out a bunch of fully automated non thinking pilots.

  • Everyone here tought that JFK is the only busy airport around the world.. there are other airport as busy as JFK.. there was heathrow, shanghai, beijing, hong kong (extreme terrain corridor), singapore,dubai.. world record was Mumbai for a single runway, handles 1-2 aicraft evry minute.. none as arogant as JFK controller.. asian handle traffic with Simple Standard phraseology, short, simple & slowly. everybody with different cultures understands.. they dont use words "like" "okay", or use the word as like "we have a cell bla bla" just short and standard.. like "request heading 120 due wx" thats it.. atc understood and try to accomodate.. if unable atc would just say "unable hold at current position" or "unable turn left/right heading"..

  • Fire that ATC...dreading flying into newark when I'm an ATP...

  • That ATC employee had a disgraceful and unprofessional tone, I hope he was disciplined for such hubris!

  • So what was the outcome of this little fracas? Did the ATC guy get into trouble?

  • Kudos to the Irish pilots! Meanwhile to be an ATC is a stressful job, that controller guy was an arrogant prick.

  • I found the Aer Lingus Pilot did nothing wrong. Operated the aircraft in a safe manner

  • This shit is cool as fuck. I want to learn this.

  • YOU ALWAYS KNOW WHEN YOUR IN NEW YORK

  • The Fighting Irish Eh. Applies to our Pilots too. Cool.

  • Shit attitude from ATC......wankers.

  • All NY ATC are bunch of pricks.

  • I get What Shamrock and 104 meant but what was the call sign "heavy mean

  • I’m not a pilot of any kind nor do I speak from any authority on the matter. However, the ATC seemed to be a bit rude and inconsiderate of the fact that the pilot was trying his best to be safe with his precious cargo. Please understand, I have nothing but respect for all pilots, especially military and Commercial, as well as Air Traffic Controllers. You guys deal with stress on a level that non pilots do not understand. Thanks for your hard work and service!

  • Ok what is a "shamrock" and can you eat it?

  • Mad respect for the pilot for making a judgment call for safety despite being heckled by the controller

  • the pilot was fully in his rights to do what he did, BUT once you've accepted that clearance atc assumes you will follow it. throw a wrench into those plans hes going to have to work around it like he did, few orbits got him back integrated into departure. Not a huge deal at the end of the day my $0.02 as an ATPL holder in Canada whos flown into JFK and LGA

  • Doesnt matter where you work, theres always gon be bitches bitchin bout shit

  • Is Trump in ATC???

  • This is what Billy Bob Thornton was talking about in Pushing Tin, when he told a pilot, "Turn now, or I'll spin you until Christmas comes".

  • I love this so muchhhh

  • Well thats a waste of fuel dont you think

  • S--t happens

  • Omg how professional was that pilot, he should start running a course teaching people about self-control, his first student should be that ATC controller, lol. Seriously though!

  • On a day to day basis these NY ATC guys are terrific. Once in a while (and this is applicable to any high density airport} someone blows a fuse. I can appreciate this (I am retired as an airline pilot) and I have high praise for their positions albeit I would never want that job! Obviously Shamrock was the victim recipient that day and handled it in extraordinary fashion while maintaining his level of safety without compromise. It is especially disturbing the ATC comments at the 2:28 passage and it is my hope the controller was disciplined for his actions afterwards and relieved by his supervisor. This is no place to be chastising.

  • The pilot is facing a minute to minute changing environment " up there"..he had so many variables to factor in...the controller should understand that..at the same time the controller too is handling so many things all at once..and will take timely decisions on basis of what he feels is best..so both professionals should respect that..of each others job functions... thanks for sharing!!!

  • It sounds like the controller was trying to intimidate (and punish) the pilot. This is against FAR 91.11 (no person shall interfere or intimidate a crew member during operation...). You know the saying, “When the pilot makes a mistake, the pilot (and passengers) dies, when the controller makes a mistake, the pilot (and passengers) dies”. The pilot sees what the controller can’t. Radar is not a substitute for the pilot’s eyes.

  • Hahaha good man captain

  • This is what Data listens to when he masturbates

  • Shamrock I’m really looking for more of a can do attitude... 🤔

  • How tf can they communicate? Not just the "pilot language" but they speak so fast over such shitty mics.

  • You speak slow, atc will follow suit - just works that way.

  • They were arguing about an ad in the NY Times that said "Tree Fellers Wanted". So Paddy, Mick and Sean all applied.

  • ATC at JFK: babbled for 4:32 min EIN104: 7 SEC "this is not my first day in New York, and this is not my first day at this aircraft". EIN104 left the chat. Complete savage!!!

  • As a occasional passenger, I probably would be better off not knowing about these things. Lol

  • PIC was in the right! He followed protocol based on what he believed to be safe for the conditions .

  • The shamrock has to understand the traffic constraints that have resulted in the hold but the controller should have been way more professional in his communication. That situation did not need to get like that and unfortunately new your ATC do have a bit of a reputation

  • FAter watching the video again, I must correct myself. This appears now to be a departure. Sorry gang.

  • Attention pilots..When entering someone's airspace, you do what you're instructed to do. The ATC's are not playing games. They are the umpires of the sky. They see situations and make calls based on safety and efficiency. The pilot's boss and the ATC's boss probably play golf or tennis together.

  • I don't get it - why the ATC is changing the rules every 10 seconds? Can somebody explain, please?

  • Blame to go around here, actually. The volume of traffic in this instance makes for a situation where deviations are no joke

  • To the left, to the left

  • Good on that pilot! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

  • ATC talks to me like that and I’m smashing his face into his radar display. Anyone disagree with me can get it too.

  • ATC sounds like a proper dick! When the pilot landed he should have went and got the prick and slapped him about

  • Well I guess we know who didn't get any before reporting to work that day. What a dick!

  • Do yall understand these controllers having been working overtime for the last basically forever 6 days a week I'm sure this shit gets old

  • What the Hell is a Grecki?

  • Even the most stubborn NY ATC can’t win an argument with an Irishman

  • ATC just mad cuz 9/11 was an inside job

  • Pure Ignorance from the ground. Absolute bull shit

  • Nyc Atc are bunch of assholes. Privatization of jfk i say

  • About 10 yrs ago I was a CRJ F/O headed towards some weather. We asked for deviation around it but same situation due to congested airspace we got the ATC response of "I show it painting weak, and the last 5 planes all went through!" We accepted it and got a very bad ride through it. Once on the other side both of us looked at each other and agreed we'd never do that again. Fast forward today I'm an A320 Captain and I can tell you I will never let ATC fly my aircraft again through weather if I don't like what I see on my own radar in the flight deck. Another point, the controller in this case was wrong when telling the Aer Lingus that "he accepted the departure clearance." The pilots did accept the clearance. But clearance is simply Kennedy 5 departure off of 22R, which is simply "runway heading 224" and radar vectors first fix GREKI in their case. The Aer Lingus had no weather on the runway heading and accepted the clearance and took off. The vector to the left is ATC trying to get him on course to GREKI but there was no published procedure or turn towards GREKI. That's all radar vectors. Now, if the departure procedure itself said "runway heading 224 until [certain DME] then left heading 070" and the pilot had a problem with it, I suppose that could be different. But not in this case, the Aer Lingus only departure procedure was runway heading 224. After that it's all on the ATC for vectors. The Aer Lingus pilot was 100% correct. ATC has limited airspace but that doesn't give him a right to have a snotty attitude. And worse, don't tell us in the plane how the weather doesn't look bad to you [ATC]. I do give credit to ATC here too, because he still worked with the situation at hand and got the Aer Lingus on a path clear of the weather and eventually on course.

  • NYC atc are probably the worst in the world.. He needs to get out of new York more and educate himself too acutally see how the rest of the world is.. Narrow minded shmuck. If a pilot doesn't like a heading because it's unsafe. Don't second guess him. He's the one with paying passengers sitting in the back. Good on you ☘ SHAMROCK 104 HEAVY! You were the REAL PROFESSIONALS.

  • Normal JFK ATC mate :/

  • Man, that ATC is a real cunt.

  • Another reason not to fly on planes... Egos everywhere... In the cockpit and in the control tower!! Human error can never be completely eradicated. And that's what we see here... Some of the many flaws in human nature, on display right in the middle of a serious moment, where they have the fate other people's lives in their hands!! :(

  • Pilot was 100% right. ATC was wrong.

  • Shamrock 104 you are awesome!!! Screw that little hot head controller.You are the captain!!!

  • How the hell can anyone understand 99% of what was coming out of that Aer Lingus pilot's mouth?

  • I stand with the pilot on this one. That controller needs a week off without pay.

  • Pushy NY departure controllers

  • Another case of ATC forgetting that THEY are a SERVICE. And by no means in "Control".

  • ATC seemed to feel that he didn't have time to deal with 104 but had time to make many unnecessary comments and explanations...

  • NY atc’s must argue more than any other atc in the business, idk wether it’s brilliant or arrogant

  • This is what we call the penalty box. You fuck with me, I’ll put you in a hold or leave your ass waiting for a clearance on the ground all day!

  • I would be pissed off too if i was getting ear raped

  • I have been studying the fuck out of air law for my exams recently and guess what, if the Pilot in Command says he cannot comply with what feels like an unsafe instruction from ATC he does not have to comply as long as he explains why to the controller. The controller must amend the instruction to suit the pilot in command. No idea why the ATC got so snotty

  • Pilots are told to do a lot of things by ATC. Bottom line is they are trained to keep their plane and passengers safe. The controller should be working with the pilot to bring the plane in for a safe landing rather then berating them for not following their directions. Deviations happen all the time. Let’s hope most are done with the pilots and ATC working professionally and in harmony.

  • I've been on this flight EI104 before. Left turn after take off followed by some rough turbulence on the way up.

  • Controller did the best he could. Airspace is tight there, not many options! Pilot should not have departed knowing they were going to need to deviate immediately. He knows the normal route out of there. Pilot did not want to accept route previous departures reported ok, so you get to bore holes in the sky then must eventually get in trail of the others going the same fix. Good job N90!

  • Wonder what happened, did the bosses speak....?

  • It sounds like he swallowed the microphone at the same time. Real difficult to understand him.

  • Airbus have weak tails.

  • Shamrock 104 get a new microphone.

  • Video is typical "ATC and a pilot have a testy exchange that they both forgot about by the time the video is posted", but the comment section is where the final battle between pilots and ATC personal is currently raging. There can only be one master of the air and it is being decided here.

  • @Aviation Lover Lmao A light weather cell is not a "threat" to an A330. This is another example of a pilot who's too cautious because he doesn't know the limits of his aircraft when it comes to weather.

  • @Aidankiwi Delta 191 crashed because the crew didn't know how to handle a microburst during approach. Pilot error was the cause of the crash. Not the ATC's advice or the weather. Unless Aer Lingus are poorly trained or the aircraft they use are fragile, flying through a thunderstorm isn't an issue. Planes take-off and land in storms around the world every year without crashing.

  • @Juanjo albarracin The weather equipment at ATC is more accurate you moron. The controller had the right to be frustrated because the idiotic pilot made an unnecessary decision, which in-turn made the job more difficult for the controller. A light storm cell is not a threat to an airliner.

  • @Paulo Pereira A "safety decision" to avoid a weather cell is unnecessary when ATC points out to you that it's light. Why? Because the technology at ATC is more sophisticated & accurate. Plus no other aircraft had an issue with the weather. The pilot was just being a cautious moron who was making the controller's job harder. He was flying an A330. I'm pretty sure a long haul jet like that can handle a light storm cell? It would be great if pilots like that could actually use some common sense and know the limits of their aircraft.

  • another bully ATC staffer in NY. Excessive turn instructions by said controller created his own stress. Just love how controller instructs aircraft to "hold" yet continues giving vectors spinning aircraft in circles. Complete control freak. What ever happened to a holding fix over the ocean for cases such as this or any other after take off situation???? Clearly, the controller was instantly floundering when just one aircraft didn't do what HE wanted despite a ring of weather from about N through the ESE.

  • Pilot handled himself well, NY ATC, not so much. Very unprofessional and unnecessary.

  • It’s this Kennedy Jack working on traffic control center it’s seems a similar voice and some jfk controllers work on both positions ground and air traffic control?

  • Something normal for Brits , they always think that they are the best in the galaxy

  • For the people trying to understand what happened - from what I gather basically a controller in New York told an aircraft to turn- and that aircraft did NOT turn because their instruments were showing something else? The pilots then argue after they both realize a massive traumatic event could have occured. One number off can lead to catastrophe.

  • Wonder what the passengers are feeling just circling all the time, I bet some of them would've vomited

  • I don’t work in the airline industry and half of this sounded like a foreign language to m so I’m not going to make an opinion on this...

  • Lost in translation.The planes have taken off and are circling to leave on their heading but the Irish guy is not playing ball because he sees bad weather, The controller basically is bossing him to hurry up because he sees far worse weather elsewhere and it's very busy and all the other planes are leaving so he makes him turn again and again until he gets away.Correct????

  • I have 25 years ATC under my belt; believe me I understand the controllers frustration, but, he can't intimidate the pilots safety call. I've flown for more then 40 years and if necessary in this situation I'd of declared an emergency and did what I had to!

  • Ooh... get HER! MEEAOW! 😂

  • Typical NYC attitude problem. Sounded like Vinny Boombats.

  • I swear New Yorkers use the excuse “this is New York” just so they can sleep at night after being assholes to everyone.

  • Very unprofessional air traffic controller and excellent job from the pilot. Safety FIRST.

  • I cannot make out a single work from the green dialogue

  • Bullying at its best. Good thing the ATC guy didn't become a cop!

  • America needs a totally revamped air control system with less human interaction.