Angry New York ATC argues with Aer Lingus pilot [ATC Audio]

čas přidán 24. 07. 2018
On July 22nd 2018 flight EI104 (A333 Reg: EI-FNG) from JFK-DUB was departing at 5:15pm local time from New York's JFK airport.
Following relatively severe weather in the New York area many aircraft on departure from the New York were requesting deviations from their routes due to the storms. This was a time of very high workload for pilots and controllers alike, as random weather deviations from planned routings can quickly throw a controller's airspace into a mess.
The crew told ATC they could not turn to the east/southeast due to a weather build-up. ATC responded by remarking that he can see only the lightest category of weather there (ATC has a weather radar in NY Tracon) and that no other aircraft had deviated from there. The Aer Lingus pilot remarks that he is just going by the equipment he has onboard. The flight, after 3 holding patterns, continued to Dublin, landing an hour late.
Audio is courtesy of Liveatc.net and edited to remove unnecessary transmissions and excess gaps in audio.

Komentáře

  • Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!

    • mrabrasive51 I know man me too. I didn't know my brain would recover this fast... another lie.

    • +Clint Beck 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    • Classic!!!

    • all right guys, lets take some pictures

    • Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

  • "Are you down there because we're up here or are we up here because you're down there?"

  • I have been there...asked ATC coming out of Orlando to turn right due wx...told we could not because of military activity, ok turn left then.'no due to conflicting with the airway, ok 180 deg turn....no because radius of turn would take us into military area,..."my response was 'well mam we either turn left or right but ai can guarantee you the one way we won't be going is straight ahead. At which point a male controller came on and said 'immediate left turn'.....ho hum.

  • Pilot did a great Job piloting his aircraft at c can't do that.Listening to atc can get you killed in this case,

  • "Newyokdeltwotwell"... How the FUCK do pilots understand what the tower is saying!!

  • I’m a fighter jet pilot (killed a lot of people) and I feel confident in saying that the air traffic controller was the paragon of professionalism and integrity. Kudos!

  • This ATC seems to be under the illusion that he can command pilots to ignore their own air craft readings to make him happy. To him it's just about doing a job, to the pilot it's about not exposing his passengers and crew to credible risk. Respect to the pilot.

  • The controllers are on the GROUND. The pilots are in the AIR in the WETHER. The pilot is responsible for the safety of the people and aircraft. PERIOD. If he says he can't do it, he can't do it. The controller was wrong.

  • The Irish...

  • I agree with the pilots on this one... Possible violent wind sheer and lighting bolts?..nah thanks... fuck you ATC.

  • There was a medium cell there, I'm not sure what the pilot was seeing on his radar map though and he had no choice other than go across the same if not worst cell later on his course...

  • I'm not a pilot. I have no idea what happened, but I'm pretty sure the ATC guy changed his tone when the pilot said he was going to report it, which would tell me the ATC realized he acted unprofessionally and was likely going to get in trouble.

  • Hope this AT controller was spoken to about this. Pilot in command is responsible for safety. The pilot is in the air and can see the weather, the Radar controller most likely does not even have windows! I see the controllers point but he should not have made a thing of it. If the pilot is not happy and makes a safety call then the controller should deal with it in a safe non aggressive tone.

  • The Aer Lingus pilot was so garbled I wouldn’t have understood a word without the subtitles.

  • I would rather trust the pilot in this situation more than the ATC because the pilot is the one controlling the plane, they are looking at the best interest, and they have direct sight of what is in front of them and around them when it comes to the weather.

  • I'll place my life in this pilot's hands any day. Right decision. Kept it classy until the end and snuck in a jab right before he disappeared into the clouds.... love it

  • That's why pilot experience is so important on commercial jets. He made a judgement and didn't put his aircraft into a questionable situation just because atc was putting pressure on him.

  • Absolute bulls#*t that an aircraft has to accept whatever atc says just because they agreed on the IFR clearance given. At JFK you might not be wheels off until 20 to 60 minutes after you recieved your IFR clearance and during that time a thunder storm easily develops. According to this atc-guy, therefore you should risk your passengers, crew and aircraft well being because he thinks he knows better. This guy needs to go back to school because they forgot to teach him that PICs have the last say if they deem an instruction unsafe.

  • Putin testing new Helicopter

  • I see everyone is either a commercial pilot or a air traffic controller

  • Them yank atc ‘s are fucking useless, very unprofessional and dangerous

  • I hate this guy at ntatc.

  • The Irish argue about everything for 700 years. If ATC prompts that there is a Guinness at the other side the Irish will take that turn..

    • What has that got to do with this stop dragging up historical nonsense.

  • The ATC is giving him right heading 080 then a few seconds later h 050... lol

  • Worked at Boston Center Area E right above this departure sector for 31 years. There is always a negotiation with pilots when it comes to weather deviations. Some pilots are game to go through weather, some are pretty timid. The NY TRACON sectors are really tiny, so you run out of room very quickly. When you can't keep 'em in a line because of weather deviations, things get difficult in a hurry. It may sound like the controller is being pissy, but YOU try running arrivals and departures through thunderstorm weather for an 8 hour shift. This guy did a good job, just as the Shamrock (FAA call sign for Aer Lingus) did for his flight and passengers.

  • Are all New York ATC assholes?

  • What is a GREKI?

  • I was waiting for someone to request a readback of the current ATIS from ATC haha

  • That controller is an absolute jerk.

  • I don't have too much sympathy for ATC here. I realize it's tricky airspace, but if a plane can't comply with ATC, it can't comply. The regs on this are pretty clear about who is ultimately responsible for the safe outcome of the flight. I've been in a similar situation where Norcal Approach was directing us straight into a cell, and was confused when we said we were unable because of lightning strikes right where we were being directed. The difference was Norcal was polite, and gave us the heading we wanted despite traffic from KSFO, KOAK, and KSJC.

  • I agree with the captain he handled it well some New Yorkers are assholes I said some. good job Captain way to keep the situation under control

  • To me it looked like the controller was in the right because he could see the big picture on his radar screen and therefore had better situational awareness than the pilot.

  • I like how everyone's so nice and polite even though you can tell they want to rip each others throtes out

  • I've noticed in this and other air videos that ATC and pilots talk so fast it's almost unintelligible, are they on helium or what?

  • can i be pilot after watching this?

  • New York ATC’s are like NY cabbies. That is so far from ok! They need to clean out JFK ATC and start again! Only employ people who can behave after being put through a stress test!!! I feel very sorry for this pilot and he absolutely did the right thing! I hope he kicked that controllers ass when he landed.

  • ATC’s HAVE NO RIGHT TO ARGUE WITH PILOTS. ITS NOT THEIR LIVES AT RISK. IF THEY GIVE ATTITUDE THEY SHLD IMMEDIATELY BE FIRED!!!!

  • The JFK aircraft controller was a prick

  • Is that the quality of audio these air traffic controllers actually have to deal with? How do you even tell abc from that..

  • This pilot just figured out why most of the rest of the country can't stand New Yorkers.

  • The word for the day is snarky!

  • Aer cunnilingus. I’m Captain Likalotapus

  • I don't get these titles, there was no anger here, just people doing their jobs!

  • Good for you Aer Lingus!! You were trying to avoid flying through some shitty weather cell to spare your passengers from getting the shit scared out of them, MUCH respect!! I flew to Dublin and England with you guys just last month and it was a very pleasant flight!

  • This is the most of the reasons sometimes I don't trust planes.

  • And who the hell is Greki?

  • It looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

  • What’s even happening

    • Dublin Aviation ain’t no finding out that

    • I DON'T KNOW. If you find out pls tell me

  • This is one hell of a stressful job. Airport traffic control ain't no joke.

  • NY Air Traffic Controllers SUCK!!!!!!!!!

  • I will think twice before flying aer lingus? No I like the prices... Please keep radio discipline in the future, you wonder what else is sloppy at the airline.

  • I don't see a problem. Poor Irishman thinks he can dispute atc? Are they kidding? Do they have a 360 radar? Can't turn? Ok hold. Everyone else was flying through apparently... What's with the non-standard radio started by the pilot? Their bossses should discuss that lack of discipline and professionalism and decide if there's other problems.

  • Like most. I have no idea what just happened, but I still watched to the end.

  • Well no matter what specific job it is, there will always be friction between dispatchers and everyone else.

  • Meeeeeeeooooow 😼

  • Why are most Irish airlines so shit 😂

  • Am I the only one that thinks that the JFK ATC sounds like Peter griffin?

  • I wish airports would get their shit together. Shut a stressful thing to have to go through just to travel.

  • Just like VATSIM. XD

  • If I can make there, I can make it, ANYWHERE, is up to you... New York... NEWWWWWWW YOOOOOOORK!

  • Dumb Irish Fuck

  • Very unprofessional ATC. The Pilot stayed calm and professional and owned him at the end!

  • The most insane thing is that we haven’t implemented a completely automated system yet. It’s literally humans negotiating with each other in real-time.

  • Wtf

  • This video was more interesting than I thought it was going to be

  • What is happening exactly, is he trying to land?

    • Thanks for explaining!

    • 0:27 - Shortly after takeoff the pilot of Air Lingus Flight 104 9"Shamrock 104") made a determination that the weather in the flight path might pose a risk to the aircraft. He requested a new flight path from Air Traffic Control (ATC). The controller argued/pointed out that several other planes just flew that route without a single aircraft reporting any issues. The pilot stood his ground and so the controller placed the plane in a holding pattern. (The various communications you hear are between the ATC directing traffic and the pilots of those planes responding.) 2:24 - After a bit (it's unable to determine from the recording how long as we don't know how much time is edited out), the pilot receives directions to make another turn. The Air Lingus pilot questions the controllers directions asking why he can't travel on what he perceives to be an open route. The controller points out that he has a plane on the runway that's about to take that route and that if the Air Lingus plane tried for that route he would fly into the airspace over LaGuardia Airport. He also makes a comment that the Air Lingus pilot put himself into the current situation. 3:20 - The controller informs that he's going to follow the same path he just sent several aircraft onto to get into the open lane and tells the pilot that if he doesn't take that path he'll have to continue to hold over JFK Airport. The Air Lingus pilot follows that route and as he leaves starts a conversation about the situation. You can use your own life experiences to determine who you think acted or didn't act professionally in this encounter.

  • The air traffic controller is really watching his washing machine window go round and round.

  • No clue why I watch these whenever they are in the many recommended. Not even the slightest clue what’s happening

    • You don't have the slightest clue? The video description is an excellent place to start. From the video description and the course of the aircraft one could have the thing on mute and have a basic idea of what is going on. The audio gives you the why (weather cell). The rest is just directions and ATC being frustrated at managing the airspace with a pilot that will not follow the assigned course while the pilot is frustrated with ATC because the pilot cannot safely fly the aircraft where ATC wants him to.

    • Controller gave the pilot a route, the pilot declined because of weather and asked for a different route, controller made him spin in circles till he could get him resequenced. Frankly I thought the pilot was professional and safe. The controllers in New York are just dicks

    • Not really hard, he was trying to descend at shamrock 100 but also maintain at 7000, issue was that delta 220 was also trying to proceed at category 6 weather while speeding up to 310

    • It's not that complicated.

    • Oh bill.

  • Why don't they get rid of these fucking rude and stupid ATCs and use computers to control air traffic?

  • Two things: 1. New Yawkers are rude entitled cunts, always. 2. That pilot was trying to swallow his mic.

  • Shamrock 104 needs a new mic...or to quit chewing on it, maybe. My first inclination is to take the side of the ATC, who is hearing everything from all the planes that have made it through before. But, at the end of the day, the pilot can be "too slow" on the hand-off as many times as he wants; but, if he goes against his judgment, he might only get one chance for doing it "too fast". On a side note, for that part of the USA, the ATC sounded very under control. In that part of the country, "F You!" is like saying, "hey what's up?"

  • New Yorkers have too much attitude to do jobs like this

  • Nobody died so fuck it

  • Without the subtitles I don't think I would be able to understand half of what was being said. I'm not talking about the jargon they use. I'm talking about understanding even basic sentences they are saying, it's just so unclear. Is this what air traffic controllers actually hear?

  • Calm, professional pilots dealing with not quite so professional ATC. Good advertisement for Aer Lingus. You did well, lads.

  • Wow! Seriously unprofessional ATC. Pilot wasn't comfortable doing it in his plane, how dare ATC question that and then punish him and his passengers for that?!? The lecture him, whaaaat? On the totem pole it is pilot for an American/European carrier, then several steps down ATC (even NY, JFK atc).

  • Americans controlling anything is a disaster waiting to happen! Disgusting people!

  • Did you hear that the FAA denied the buyout of Aer Lingus by Continental Airlines? Yeah. Mainly, they objected to the new name planned after the merger... Conni-Lingus. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • It's amazing there aren't more accidents. I know I'm not right but it's just hard to take a Brooklyn accent seriously for this type of work.

  • You'd think by now they could afford something better than tin cans for mics

  • Pilots always being smart assess... This is why ATC is key

  • I dont understand guys, what was the problem here

  • What does GREKI MEAN?

  • The Irish Pilot was a piece of shit who ignored ATC orders.

  • "Blah blah 104 201 180 201 340 105 603 shamrock blah blah baked beans 107 205 102 gin and tonic blah blah blah." That's pretty much all I took away from this video.

  • Yeah, because ATC has never steered an aircraft directly into danger. Oh... wait.

  • Probably a shitty yankee fan smh

  • Bloody hell respect to these atcs.... Not an easy job

  • I can’t believe I just listened to the whole four minutes of this nonsense.

    • And now your algorithm will give you many more ATC situations because you clearly love them!

  • I’m just a random scientist. I don’t know anything about ATC. How did I end up here? I was expecting this video to be funny, but I can’t tell if it is or not.

  • You know this shit requires a level of concentration few people have.

  • So, what happened when pilot's boss called controller's boss?

    • Hopefully two people were reminded what conversations are permitted over the radio and when to shut up and let management handle it.

  • Its kinda scary in this day and age, that all this is not automated. All this fly by Testosterone is a little off putting.

  • New York air traffic controller, grating, overbearing and controlling. Sends a shiver down ya spine.

  • It's nice to have a profession where one can fuck off and have the fuckery justified in the name of safety. having confidence in the instruments is paramount when responsible for over hundreds of souls as a PIC. As a pax, do you want the pilot to rely on his gut feeling, whatever that cirrhosis-scarred aviation community liver is--or do you want to rely on sound navigation and piloting techniques? Aer Lingus shows they really are dingus here and encapsulates the PIC attitude that has led to so many deaths, that they know what is right above anyone and anything else. Wake up flyboys, the way regs have evolved it's to eliminate the role of humans in flight, not make you sensitive fools more in control. Who is supposed to thing this aer dingus PIC had some sixth sense like he was searching for his pot of gold?

    • I dunno. I'm fine with a pilot saying he's not okay with flying into a cell. The ATC was wrong to spend so much time questioning that decision. Present the information. ("Six aircraft just took that route with no reports of issue. Is it still your decision to hold?") But then the pilot can't whine and moan that he's in a damn holding pattern either. And ATC radio is NOT the place to air that grievance. That bit at the end was completely uncalled for and ATC should not have taken the bait.

  • Why do, almost, all angry ATCs come from JFK?

  • Pilots/ATC talk the way doctors write

  • I hope ATC get paid a lot, looks wild

  • Controller got pissed very quickly! Unprofessional

  • The ATC had to re-route 104 when the pilot refused the takeoff vector he was given with his departure clearance. When the pilot threatened him with communications to the bosses the controller politely reminded him that the holding turns were the unavoidable result of the pilot's decision. The pilot is the only one in this recording who got huffy, going on about his experience in New York, and then threatening the ATC with a communication to his boss. The pilot's repeated whining puts him one down in terms of professional conduct.