čas přidán 13. 12. 2021
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The Universe is incredibly big and seems full of potential for life, with billions of habitable planets. If an advanced civilization had the technology to travel between the stars, at just 0.1% of the speed of light, It could colonize our galaxy in roughly 100 million years. Which is not that long given the billions of years the milky way has existed - so in principle any spacefaring civilization should be able to spread rapidly over huge sectors of the galaxy. And yet we see nothing, hear nothing, the universe seems empty. Devoid of others. This is the Fermi Paradox, which we have discussed in more detail in other videos.
Confronted with the seemingly empty universe, humanity faces a dilemma. We desperately want to know if we are alone in the Milky Way. We want to call out and reveal ourselves to anyone watching but that could be the last thing we ever do. Because maybe the universe is not empty. Maybe it’s full of civilizations but they are hiding from each other. Maybe the civilizations that attracted attention in the past were wiped away by invisible arrows. This is the Dark Forest solution to the Fermi paradox.
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Komentáře: 29 922
If this video made you curious and you like reading great and long sci fi books, check out the three body problem by Liu Cixin, who formulated the dark forest idea for the first time. And with that, we say good bye to the year 12,021. It truly was a wild time, and passed so, so quickly. For us at the Kurzgesagt team it was full of changes and achievements and we learned so much and tried so many new things. And we have so many exciting ideas and projects that we can’t wait to share with you next year! I know I say this often but doing Kurzgesagt really is just such a joy. We only can do this because of you, so thank you so, so much. We appreciate it more than you might imagine. Have wonderful holidays and get safely into the year 12,022. We’ll see you on the other side! - Philipp PS: And if you want to help us do what we do, check out our store with sciency products made with love: kgs.link/shop-156
You fell off + ratio
Same thing you kurzgesagt!
BS LIFE IS OUT THERE
Imagine finally getting a message from space, and after decoding it, the message says "be quiet, they'll hear you."
Holy crap now THAT is scary
Oh shit 😂. We gonna get got
but they will expose themselves by doing this, so not a smart move.
@Skem by expose wym expose and how
Imagine an alien version of kurzgesagt explaining why humans exist
BRO WTF THAT IS ACTUALLY CRAZY. I thought about an alien civilization watching this video after decoding it to see what we think.
And then they see their climate change videos
I will not imagine that!🤨
Sources reveal they have no real explanation
We would be aliens to them , so it would still be about alien's existance
“Maybe the only way out of the dark forest is to step into the clearing, together” one of my favorites quotes from this channel. ❤️
Or let's chop it all down, we are rlly good at deforestation (joke)
inb4 we do that and some other race spots us both and eliminates us both
famous last words
They say this in the video just to please the audience. Use logic and think what the worst consequences would be and whether our civilization can afford such consequences.
I feel like if this was true, living like the Eldar from 40k would be one of the most viable options. Massive ships quietly moving about the universe would be way harder to pin down than individual planets
No it wouldn't
Unrealistically impractical. Why hunt when you can hide. There are too many planets to destroy one by one.
Third book reveals that this is partially the case, civilizations use ships to both have a backup in case of planetary annihilation and attack other civilizations without risking revealing your home system.
Yeah I mean the Eldar are doing that strategy specifically because they had brought too much heat to their home world's. They intend to go back to them once stuff quiets down. Fulgrim ravaged a couple though once he knew what was up.
The book Enders Game covers this idea so brilliantly. Both the issues of fighting other empires in the vastness of space as well as the inability to surrender due to fears of what happens if one were to do so
3 body problem , read it!
not the best analogy to make, considering ender's game is also about paranoid government officials manipulating children and also inflicting massive psychological damage and ptsd to said children, but yes you are correct, the idea of lightspeed weapons is similar to the dr.device, considering they both instantly annihlate their opponents
Also the Xeelee Sequence. Greatest Sci-fi ever written. This was written in the 1980's!
Enders Game, although clearly intended for children/teenagers, is still one of my favorite movies for some reason. I’ve seen it dozens of times. Luckily, I can excuse my love for this movie by way of mentioning that I was a teenager when it was released (although that means I’m now an old fart).
@Spinkick Liu Cixin
This reminds me how in Stellaris (a space 4X game) you cab set you first contact protocol to either peaceful, aggressive or neutral and if you meet someone new you cant instantly communicate with them. They just show up as a ship unit and you need to start a research project to learn their language and establish communication.
Too bad Stellaris is kinds bad
@Techpriest Ophelianah it’s really good
I feel like the Hunter in the technological forest could spin-off to its own Internet show. I'd watch that
Don't read my profile.......
@GIGAHIGA k i wont
I swear I just skipped the through the video just to see the hunter. Because it was just hq. Really makes me think, they should make a show about this on youtube and rake in the money for Kurzgesagt.
Go read "the three body problem" series, by Cixin Liu. It's translated beautifully, and paints a detailed picture of what this would look like in practice. Also it's one of the most enjoyable series I've read in ages.
It has too many scientific breaks for me. Mostly the way a well known astronomic system was portrayed in a wildly inaccurate manner. Sure, you get some flexibility, but they literally named the book after the thing they got wrong!
@Derrick White true. But the three body problem wasn't solved at the time of writing. And for it's flaws, it's a much more realistic and interesting concept then a lot of other science fiction. I would say it's nearly Asimov level sci Fi, and definitely outdoes most of the sci Fi that is made today.
@Kristofer Hutter Three Body problem isn't solved today. But its understood, and there are several cases for which it is solved, and has been solved for decades... including the specific star system invoked. It takes itself more seriously than most of the escapist work labeled "sci fi", but in terms of serious science fiction, which it sells itself as, its woefully lacking. It has some cool ideas. But I found the execution weak.
Definitely one of the best pieces of fiction I've come across, ever.
@Daniel Rodrigues oh absolutely. Especially within the sci Fi genre. It's able to balance the concepts of aliens, and new technologies and dimensions, with actual theme and substance. It's absolutely perfect, I am shocked that I was lucky enough to come across it.
This is probably my favorite interpretation of our cosmos, no matter how dark it seems. While the past IS the past, and the future is uncertain, it doesn’t take a lot to make it a little less scary.
What If we are the predecessor species? What if life is barely crawling out of the ooze and we're first? I'd love to hear about that option as well.
They did. The great filter video.
That is the early bird theory
@mega bruh moment Love your username, bruh.
That would be even scarier... looking both at our history and our present, it's worth wondering if we could even deserve or be trusted with such an advantage... on the other hand, it's also worth wondering if we're not wasting said opportunity, opting instead to bicker and waste resources fighting among ourselves. This kind of also sparks another thought... what if we're late? What if all other spacefaring civilisations have already colonised galaxies billions of years before humanity even came to be, and they're all just watching us like hidden tigers watching an unattended infant struggle to walk...
@N1 the captain we haven’t wasted the opportunity, we made among us
Its also comforting in a way. Knowing there are friendlies out there that warned us to avoid a big threat.
We as a specie are driven by curiosity, but what if aliens don't feel the same, what if they emotionally don't care about the idea of finding others in space.
Really appreciating this new, slightly more laid back narration style.
It’s been 6 minutes you couldn’t have listened to this video.
I love you
The one thing we could hope for is that we're seen as cute little creatures that need to be preserved. The more likely outcome is that our planet is too valuable to allow it to stay within our grasp.
Even a rabbit is a threat to a human being. And preserved likely means capture and/or enslavement by our standards.
@Anime Versus What the heck are you on about?
Anime: agreed, us humans aren’t “nice” to our animals (and even other humans in the past), so I don’t see intelligent aliens ‘just letting us cute adorable dumb humans live in peace out of respect’, I definitely see them pillaging and taking all possible resources and god knows what they have in store for us lol
Previously talked about is that a black hole can shoot off objects at a significant fraction of the speed of light. Civilizations could use black holes to annihilate each other, not by building a black hole bomb, but shooting bombs WITH the energy of the black hole, with the black hole bomb as a final resort if needed.
This reminded me of a video game Destiny. In the lore. A predatory civilization known as “the Hive,” is seeking to annihilate, or devour others. One particular intelligent species weaponized their black hole to back against extinction. _--- The Harmony have weaponized their dead star. They can stimulate the accretion disc to fire relativistic plasma jets. We will take the Sting. We will use it to burn their worlds. I will grant one temple of tribute to the first Ascendant to kill a world._
Sort of like that old "gravity game".
In 2011, the first DayZ mod was launched, which features permadeath, and allowed players to interact however they wanted, for example teaming up to fight zombies.The exact opposite happened, where humans were far more of a threat than the zombies themselves. Seeing another player meant it was kill or be killed, usually before any type of communication was attempted. While groups did exist, they were set up beforehand and never developed organically. Even if another player only had a can of beans on them, it was far better to just kill them, and remove a potential existential threat. I imagine the universe will be much the same. There are quiet ones, and dead ones.
I'd be very wary of extrapolating from a video game based on an extreme premise. In video games people kill each other all the time, but it doesn't happen in daily life.
@W Bertie People kill each other in real life all the time. The only difference is they don't respawn
This is a great depiction of the possible reality. I just saw a movie with a similar plot, End of World with Forest Whitaker
If a first contact situation did occur, it would absolutely require patience, tolerance and understanding. Misunderstanding leads to suspicion which leads to fear. Fear invokes aggression which could lead to conflict and violence. As humans we haven't solved this reflex behavior cascade amongst ourselves. So how could we insure that a first contact meeting wouldn't go south with so many unknown variables.
정공룡의 추천을 받고 달려옴 공룡님은 이런 거 어케 찾으셨다냐
Imagine someone on another planet seeing a similar space sci-fi vid about our planet
Man with checkmark must like
How only 3 mins ago what
Aliens will come to earth on 21st January, 2022!
And there is another one writing this reply.
Your content is beautiful. Everything from the art style to how easily each video explains complex ideas.
It's insane that we are even preparing for and looking for other possible life forms close to us considering only 100+ years ago we hadn't lifted off the ground in aircraft..
failing to prepare is preparing to fail
Loved this Fermi paradox solution since the book. Only one of many of course, and a bit of a silly one since looking (by modern definitions) doesn't necessarily give away our presence any more than just existing. But I like this one because although it assumes hostility (a very common slant in the sci-fi of colonial cultures and the cultures they've colonized btw...) it still fits with the best retort I've heard against *visiting* aliens being hostile that I heard from an actual astrobiologist (Eddie Schwieterman): "If interstellar aliens were here and wanted us dead, we'd be dead" = if they can make probes or vessels travel at significant fractions of light speed, they could literally take a soda can mass, accelerate it, and blow up the Earth from afar with it.
What if we haven't found any aliens because most civilizations are literally around the same level of advancement as us and we're all placed so far away that we'll never find each other for thousands of years
Let's take the development of human civilisations as a baseline. If there are civilisations out there that develop at a similar pace, they would have originated at around the same point in time as humanity, which is not very likely. If there are those that develop faster than humans, their civilisations began later, and caught up to us quickly, and it would make sense if they were the only other civilisation, which is improbable. If there are those that develop slower, they had to have began earlier, and we caught up to them quickly, which would also make sense if they were the only other civilisation. If we say there are two civilisations, ours and one other, and we're at the same stage in development, it makes sense, but it's improbable that there aren't any other civilisations. If we say there are tens of hundreds of thousands, and they all developed at different speeds, but we're all at the same stage in development, it becomes so cosmically improbable, that it might as well be a video game. Those are my two cents on the topic.
@The Sorcerer what if somewhere billions of light years away there is an exact mirror and copy of our solar system, with humans just like us
@Naqire I don't think that's very likely, but if there is it would be incredible.
Thats likely the only reason; everything else just sounds like a mixture of mania and hope
Also another aspect, cooperation has been shown to have incredible evolutionary advantage; so most likely it is on a scale between Dark Forest level distrust and cooperative benevolence, but not either fully. In any case, I think it is more likely we are in some statistical improbability but eventuality of being in a corner of space without much sentient life perhaps. Either way it pays to be cautious, and no one will hold it against you. That's why I think programs like METI is careless.
I’d be really annoyed if our first contact with aliens was them coming to earth as some sort of door to door salesman or trying to recruit us into a pyramid scheme.
XD I would love it if the first contact is like in independence day 2 With that white orb thing Seemed so nice to me
They're gonna come here and try to tell you about your satellites extended warranty
“You become you own space capital you only need to give us 200k kg of metal and travel to other planets to recruit them.”
"Humanity can be their own boss with this this two easy apps"
"Have you heard about our lord and savior X'BorYag"
sometimes, thinking about how little we know and how big the universe is, is really frustrating. Curiosity can make a man mad, but curiosity is also the reason we explore and theorise, curiosity might probably be the reason of the wipe put of the human species but at least then, we will know, we will be able to satisfy that curiosity.
Maybe think of it in the comforting light that we WILL answer most of life’s questions. We as a society are just not as advanced enough and that distraction shows we are determined to become ET’s. It’s just simply not our time yet.
Considering the entire reason humanity won is because we are an empathetic species, I think it's safe to assume, if we do meet another, the same will be true for them.
I was also very confused by that point. Why would the actions of invaders determine human nature but not the actions of the invaded? History is replete with groups that defy imperialism and are punished for it, why not say it's human nature to be brave and ruthlessly compassionate I always wonder when people say it's human nature to hurt others. Like, is that the case for the person saying it? Do they feel like that's THEIR nature?
@Careless Whisker Yeah, the dark forest concept is sort of predicated on a more pessimistic view of our nature. It's why I'm not the biggest fan of it in general. It seems to also make sense for species to cooperate for the benefit of both parties since we see that in humans and many other animals as well
No we won because we where ruthless predators it has been proven predators are more intelligent usually apes & monkeys I guess not really predators but whales well some eat squid & dolphins eat fish
@Don't forget your sunscreen please don't delete this comment when you're sober
@Careless Whisker xD
Your channel is genuinely brilliant, we're here to be educated and listen to you friend, without you we wouldn't be here (=
Always expect the worse can be advantageous in some circumstances, but it can also led one to be completely isolated and can destroy one, especially if our species survival depends on connections and interactions with others, i.e. being a social species. Intentions are crucial and important to know before reacting on impulse. You definitely don't want to send out an introvert during these interactions. I rather like to think that our space friends are just waiting for us to evolve more and have more advanced technology before interacting with us. Sort of like an older brother/sister waiting for the baby brother/sister to be old enough to play video games with. 😂 Imagine if they are like us, but only more advanced in their social institutions and are one of the most peaceful species that humans have ever encountered. A race of beings that had figured out to focus more on thriving (having an enriching existence) and prefer to use resources to advance themselves, and want to share that with us, because sharing methods and practices that actually benefit others is part of that belief of advancement. A race that has no need for money or what they would regard as enslavement of the mind and spirit. They would find us so weird and properly would want to help us avoid all of the world problems that we created ourselves in the first place. I would love to meet THAT space friend.
This also depends on the possibility of life. If most star systems have a civilization in one way or another, then the dark forest is darker, as the chances of expansion are smaller. On the other hand, if say the milky way has three or four civilizations, then collaboration and peace becomes necessary for expansion and even survival. My guess is that it falls somewhere in between, allowing for collaborative civilizations to team up and defend each other against more aggressive species. In any case, observation and learning is extremely necessary.
The idea of some alien space council that knows we’re here but is waiting for us to “grow up” is actually really comforting for some reason.
So, it's basically Mass Effect. Jesus, lets just hope we don't encounter aliens like the Turians or get uplifted prematurely and end up like the Krogan.
@The Whomping Wampa Lets hope our first encounter isn’t with the Krogan
Isn't that kind of the back story of earth in star trek?
@David Perez Not really - only if you think the Federation is a "welcoming space council" but, in reality, the Federation are like aloof and waiting for the moment a civilisation reaches light speed travel just so they can have a chat of joining like when you move into a new house and the first knock on the door is the Jehovah's Witnesses.. Also, not so much if you are in the Klingon or Romulan neck of the woods: one's a warrior race and the other is a manipulative race out for resouces.
Kurzgesagt can give the most eye-opening, life changing, cosmically-educating speech about a foreign alien race that will have a 50/50 chance of either coming in peace or wiping us off the face of the universe and then be like "but we're probably fine." You truly are brilliant people.
Something we always think about seems to be that if there's an alien species out there that they must be more advanced, but what if we have never seen aliens is because we are the most advanced civilization out there.
I think this is one of my favourite theories about aliens. It mixes primal instincts and futuristic space explorations! XD But, to be honest, I like to think that there aren't many high-tech, advanced alien civilizations out there. Maybe the majority of aliens are just like us, living simple lives, going to school or work, having breakfast, telling stories to one another, loving, hating, crying, laughing. Just like us. And if life itself only evolves in extremely specific conditions, such as those on Earth, I have absolute certainty that people of the planets that are similar to our Earth isn't that much different from ourselves. Maybe their skin is blue or red or yellow, but maybe they too have two eyes, to hands with five fingers, hair etc. And if all of that is true, they are asking the same questions. They are looking at our Sun the same way we look at Sirius or Aldebaran in the night sky. Maybe they also have their own Moon. I like to think that way, because it makes me feel more connected to them, to people that I don't even know if exist, if they exist at all, but are possibly very similar to me, both anatomically and philosophically.
A structure would probably create an abundance of life. The abundance will have to successfully strive and survive and multiply. With that being said, there are so many different ways any type of abundances could look. Space is completely empty. 99.999 space is empty. Physics seems to limit how fast matter can travel through space. 1 star is approximately 5 light years apart from the next..
Theoretically you’d be right to think we haven’t broadcasted our existence with radio. However, we did do something that is not naturally occurring, has a high industrial signature and can be easily detected over hundreds of light years - we’ve exploded nukes. So technically we’ve been letting the universe know we are here since 1945
I'd imagine the aliens' response to the sudden burst of radio traffic and the following series of nuclear explosions would be: "da fak they doin ova der"
What’s terrifying is that if there are infinite parallel universes out there, then we’ve already been discovered and destroyed. We’ve also discovered and swiftly conquered.
I can just imagine a bunch of aliens watching a giant bonfire in space, and then it finally goes out and they think to themselves “Damn they really took their time to realise huh”
Just imagine that this one planet that can sustain life has everything from single cell life to elephants, there's no way other planets out there aren't teaming with life. Now imagine a planet where there has never been a mass extinction, like we have had more than a few times, they would literally be a million years ahead of us.
the thought that there could be an already formed alliance of galaxies and interplanetary civilizations watching us and keeping tabs for when we're ready is rather comforting to me
I heard of a plan to use our sun as a lense to see an exoplanet in high resolution (it is possible), which made me wonder if an alien civilization just a little more advanced than us saw our planet.
The likely reason that we have not encountered alien life, is that beings like ourselves (which i think are likely to be throughout the universe) create new dimensions / universes to pass into before they try to move across open space. Look at a chestnut tree. The chestnuts are far away from each other, for the chestnuts to turn into new trees, they do not need to make contact with eachother, and infact being far apart ensures more space for the chestnuts to drop in fertile ground and therefore aid the multiplication of the tree. If the universe is an evolved structure (Which I think to be highly likely), then it would be advantageous for life to be far apart, so that we do not war with each other and more rapidly create a new realm of information / universes. And so the Universe therefore multiplys. The earth is essentially an egg, and its been fertilesed by life. That life will then create new universes.
I like your way of thinking and it makes sense.. BUT.. my only argument here is that we as humans have only evolved to create technology to aid us in our day to day living here on earth. We’ve created impressive rockets and satellites in order for us to see what is out there in our universe, we are no where near at the level to create any significant difference in chancing our dimension/universal timeline as we go on as a species. I like to look at our evolvement through the Kardashev scale. We aren’t even at type 1, we are sitting between 0.6-0.7 type civilization. In order to make any difference in our way of existence and timeline we would need an enormous amount of energy at a galactic level, that I can see how we can potentially open up new barriers through space and time, by that rate (if humanity is still around) we would be traversing at the speed of light. We haven’t truly even mastered the power of the atom or even left our solar system. We are eons away before we can make an impact at a universal scale.. and most scientist believe humanity will never get to that point due to our Neanderthalish brain still highly active. AI may possibly take over one day and real humans may become a form of Bio-Organic substance that wonder the earth..
@john appleseed We can already create quite realistic alternative realities using our basic computer technology. Once we have quantum computing, we will simply be able to run algorithms in power physics systems and they will just create universes, or maybe it will be AI that will do this for us. We can tell from how the universe grew, that it came from a simple state, and that is how we would create a universe, from a single algorythmic origin, and let it expand within a program. The way we make computer games now, it would be impossible to create a new universe, it would be far to much work. The universe we live in shows us jow it is to be done, and we will replicate that. Inevitably at some point.
“I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.” -Jack Handey
@Langton Industries sad truth
@Langton Industries Violence is the eternal answer to "Or else what" If you aren't willing to use it, you're no more than property of the person that will
I wouldn’t do that
Any civilization that reaches space will have to be aggressive. We are what we are because our planet gave us obstacles to overcome. We couldnt have gotten to this point without some aggressiveness. Others must have come through some of the same trials or curiosity wouldn't develope. Our best bet is to listen and observe, but keep quite, very quite. We may find that an advanced ship of mindless robots land without a care for what is here and begin transforming our planet into something suitable for whatever beings may follow. If we sent terraforming bots ahead, they might wipe out an intelligent race of mice sized creatures and not give it a thought!
I think there are plenty of intelligent and non intelligent life in the universe. No matter how advanced a civilization had gotten…the vast distances involved in space travel is a hurdle no civilian has overcome. I think somewhere we might have 2 planets that are close and have life (earth to the moon or mars) and they have contact or live with each other.
Imagine that aliens came and visited us at one point, but arrived at a time when the mammals dominated earth so they decided to leave us alone as some sort of makeshift wildlife preservation project
The more i watch these videos the more I get convinced that we are in an alien simulation
this is my favorite Kurzgesagt video, and This honestly seems like one of the more realistic outcomes of the fermi paradox. the main one being that the distances are too great between civilizations and thousands and thousands of years for back and forth communication isn't worth it. so other civilizations don't try.
I was waiting for Kurzgesagt to cover this book. Such a terrifying concept, and yet I can’t stop thinking about it.
trisolaris? also *amogus*
You mean trisolaris?
Ah yes, another trisolaris enjoyer
I believe the Aliens are so advanced that they might be among us and we'd never know
I think we are too early in the timeline of the Universe and most civilsations are either in their cavemen phases, barely surviving with inhospitable conditions or got wiped out due to calamities. The Goldilocks Zones are few and far in between and there are still thousands of different variables like pressure, toxicity, sudden onset of winter etc. which will derail any progress possible.
Best strategy is to be quiet and search out and if we find others, investigate and approach cautiously. If we identify like minded creates and form alliances it will defend us against those who are going to do us harm.
Milky-way seems to lack alien life at the moment but saying the universe has no alien life is a stretch
Another facet to the dilemma might be that acting in such a way to exterminate life in order to protect one’s own planet would potentially limit the number of planets that could be inhabited. At least, depending on the tactic used.
I believe it is healthier to treat this matter with pessimism not with optimism. So, the dark forest theory is the way to go.
I remember a short horror story I read from somebody else. Humanity has finally made contact with another intelligible species. The first message we receive back from them is: "Cease all communications; they will hear us."
Except the other aliens would just let us die before they reveal themselves
that sent a shiver down my spine
It all stems from the novel series starting with "The 3 body problem"
What is it called?
the first message probably: What are guys gliberring about? we don't understand (in alien language)
Has anyone ever told you guys that the way you color and animate things is absolutely beautiful?
Another thing to consider would be how people in our world would view aliens. We still struggle with xenophobia within our own species. What would it be like with a species from another planet?
Fun fact: If an alien species from 200 million light years looked through their alien telescopes and saw us, they would see dinosaurs. The distance between possible life forms seems to be so significant, it seems extremely unlikely for different planets to ever communicate.
Its because they are watching us.
@Cola no I think you read it correctly. Light in it self takes a whole year to move from one point to another in space. If let’s say point A ( earth ) found the point B ( alien aivilization ) we would see a whole different place then what point B is. Let’s say they are 50 light years apart. So technically if we see them through a telescope we would see their world 50 years in the past. Not the current. Idk if I misunderstood your comment, however if this helps out welcome!
Our galaxy is only around 100,000 lightyears across.
Great videos on this channel. A refreshing combination of realism, intelligence and entertainment. I'll keep watching.
I love the art style of this channel ❤ and the content itself ofc x
the art style in this video is perhaps my favourite of any kurzgesagt video so far. the way you guys have animated, portrayed, and narrated (!) aliens is stunning and thought provoking - kudos!
Hello random verified user
I was going to say that
It reminds me of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy book.
:) yeah kurzgesagt stuff is fantastic. I currently have a duck plush (named lotus, since ducks are wetland animals and the tag said to give it a nice name) and it’s such a comforting fluffy friend. I love this channel, you guys are fantastic. I read immune so many times when sick I ended up getting it too because I was tired of having to put it on hold at the library. Thanks for being arguably the best channel on here.
Great analysis! And at timestamp 8:57, you made a brilliant and pragmatic counterpoint to fear based on our primal instincts versus our progress as a civilization to truly "grow up". Progressive science fiction like the original Star Trek (made over half a century ago and with a more diverse cast) better sums up our sense of wonder - “Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." If anyone wants an OG "dark forest" science fiction-fantasy-horror, there's: 1. The "grimdark" Warhammer 40K lore that has been fleshed out over three decades and counting, enriched with the perspectives of multiple authors from different times. It is a story of what appears to be the hopeless struggle of humanity against superior threats, against itself, and to make itself the primary race in the universe 2. The "weird", "purplish", and cosmic science fiction horror that was written a century ago by H.P. Lovecraft. These are short stories that tear down our anthropocentric hubris in the face of the unknown horrors of the universe. These examples are far from being the only references. They came to mind after watching this video. I would love to know more examples. I also think it's important to treat the author's "dark forest" idea as science fiction and not confuse it with actual science. I would rather leave that to the professionals, aka scientists with stringent peer-reviewed theories. If the opposite is true, then in fairness, we must give equal coverage to the above examples and other science fiction ideas by authors such as Frank Herbert, Arthur C. Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Dan Simmons, Orson Scott Card, and others (Dune, Space Odyssey, Foundation, Hyperion, Ender's Game, and the upcoming or existing movie adaptions) as theories and philosophies that merit balanced discussion. Nevertheless, I am glad that a work of science fiction sparked a serious discussion of our place in the universe. If it helps more people explore the science fiction genre, be it reading more books or playing games, then more power to them!
The animations and story telling is utterly jaw dropping work!!!
Imagine a book or film/TV series based in a far off future where we’ve fixed most problems and are on the verge of interstellar colonisation. It’s be so cool.
What an existentially terrifying scenario we are in.
I like to think one day, parents will tell their kids “be careful about what you send out into the universe…you can’t delete it in entirety!”
@Jason Baugher yeaahhh lol
Time is non local synchronicity, past, present and future exist at once... everything exists now... nothing can be deleted. Energy cannot be created or destroyed...
People are already sending radio signals into space, and it's terrifying
If we ever approach aliens, the smartest way outside of fighting is to give them resources as a “hello”
I feel like we’ve would’ve been more advanced in everything, mainly tech. Only if we weren’t so busy fighting each other and instead just thrive as humans together. Like all the problems we deal with today is distracting us to make our planet stronger😴
So basically, what we don’t know can definitely hurt us
To be honest, the safest civilisation we can contact, against most people’s expectations, is not a less advanced than us or as advanced as us, but rather far more advanced than us. So advanced, that they won’t view us as a threat
"Proceeding aimlessly in the search for extraterrestrial life is a perilous pursuit. We must remain vigilant, for in the depths of the universe, a cosmic Sniper could be lurking."
I think a language barrier between planets could be even more dangerous than what weapons they could have
vinland saga\american history proves that
This reminds me that in Halo games, the war that aliens start against humanity, which purpose was to exterminate it, started by a misinterpretation and a misunderstanding.
I feel like we just need to find a direct way of universal kindness. Languages wont help because its something we created, food might not work since wed be dealing an entire different race and dont know how it would affect them.
Let’s just pray either we invented universal translation or they have
@Maks Animates In stargate the highly developed races used a universal language based on atoms. it seems pretty smart, since the elements should be the same, no matter where in the universe.
Wow, a preemptive destruction of other planets via missile strikes looks like a truly pessimistic scenario. But you never know, once those councils of national security meet...
When he was talking about interplanetary wars.. and the danger of seemingly unstoppable and incredibly sneaky attack.. only had me thinking about an interplanetary World War, where its all humans. We already had two, if one happened in the star age… that is whats truly terrifying.
If I had “inter-dimensional cable” I’d try to find kurzgesagt’s video on DMT. I enjoyed the video, thank you for the hard work you put into this incredible video!
Should we simply come across them unknowingly, or maybe shocked when they find us ?
As Sagan said: “The newest children in a strange and uncertain cosmos should listen quietly for a long time, patiently learning about the universe and comparing notes before shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand.”
Carl Sagan is wise, indeed.
This sounds like a good idea
Or in the words of 4Chan.. "Lurk Moar!"
I think it’s important for people to just accept the fact that there is life other than us … but that dosnt mean we need to communicate with them
Greg Bear wrote two amazing books on this-The Forge of God and Anvil of Stars. The underlying notion is that humanity is an infant crying in the middle of a dark forest as hungry wolves quietly circle closer....
I like to imagine that an alien civilization is receiving our messages, and they’ll send us something along the lines of “you were too loud” or “be quiet, they’ll hear you” but they’re just screwing with us.
Fun thing is the book series that at least popularized this, humanity used the fact that there would always be some stronger, more paranoid civilization out there to force a vastly stronger alien civilization into a stalemate for a while (till it failed). Then when it still succeeded by sheer chance and the wider universe was alerted to the existence of humanity and the alien invaders, the aliens were wiped out near instantly because they posed a larger threat, all it took was a spaceship to launch an RKM. Humanity became paranoid and hid in the outer solar system, shielding themselves behind the gas giants out of fear that another missile (or photoid) would hit the Sun. They died because as it turns out, godlike civilizations weaponized the universe and laws of physics themselves and collapsed the solar system from 3 (or 4?) dimensions down into 2
I love your videos because the way you explain the concepts makes it easy for me to understand
“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” - Arthur C Clarke.
We definitely aren’t alone. We can’t be.
The former is less terrifying. It means we can play gods and give birth to more life
i feel a video game on this sort of topic would be cool. as in a multiplayer game game where you build a civilisation as take over OR make alliances with a lot of others. in a massive 2.5d map in the iconic arts style of your channel
Master of Orion II.
Glad that you do try to make sense, and with a very nice presentation. Too many series portraying the universe with human like aliens with same technology level, ruins peoples understanding. However, I am less (depending on how you see it), positive that we will not get noticed. As we are looking for planets showing signs of life, so will advanced aliens as well. Too find potential competition/friends, in their effort to map space around them. If they see/understand that we are dangerous to ourselves and thereby others, they might decide to eliminate us before we are a serious danger to them.
It would be very interesting if you made more three-body problem videos like this
If we expect natural reactions as hunters, maybe the encounter will be as two predators in nature, they don't usually kill each other , they avoid conflict, they put a display of dominance , and have corporal language, we can't even asume the other is of our own " size", odds may be like choosing two random animals and make them encounter, they will notice, but rarely they will engage
two predators? there is only one possible..just crush like a worm
@諾揚 ??? Seems like you have you never seen a homo sapiens hanging out with a dog
look at the top content, the dark forest idea is from the three body problem by Liu Cixin. If u read, you will come to the same conclusion as me
Amazing amazing amazing content and animation!!! I and i think everyone watching is in love with your videos😍! Hats off to you guys for these amazing videos and we all really admire your hardwork❤️. Also how beautiful, creative and cute your animations 🥺😍. All the best guys i hope your channel grows more each day!!!!❤️❤️❤️
The Dark Forest scenario reminds me of this writing prompt I saw once: "Due to the vast distances between stars, interstellar wars are often a case of who finds the other first. With such long trival times, any sort of retaliation is impossible, and the one who gets first strike always wins. Because of this, most intelligent species try to remain hidden and not give their position away. This is why everyone is so terrified of humanity, who feel the need to loudly broadcast their location."
Do you recall where this is from?
@count TZT r/WritingPrompts
They’re scared of humanity because humanity is a loud target ? I don’t understand
"This is why everyone is so terrified of humanity, who feel the need to loudly broadcast their location." As if no one else does, just because we haven't seen such signals yet? Assuming there is indeed a danger in doing so, all civilizations may go through a period of 'not yet knowing better.' Your assertion also implies that 'everyone' (especially if they're not also already talking to each other) will respond to awareness of our presence in the same way. Some may reach out if sufficiently gregarious, some may pre-empt, if sufficiently paranoid. Or anything in between. This isn't about what humans do, it's about what enough others may do, to be consistent with the Fermi Paradox.
@motown Like a lion roaring. Think about, if you're in a dark forest and hear a lion roar, are you going towards it or away fast as hell in the opposite direction?
You're forgetting one thing about us. The only reason we as a species were able to crawl out of the mud and into the sky, cooperation. None of us are in this alone. No one accomplished anything alone. We are at our best when we work together
different species with completely different environments during their evolution might not have the same mental processes as us, much less the same way of thinking. to them our technological progress over the last 300 years could have taken them thousands, thus terrify them of losing that advantage. let alone if they know how intrinsically violent we are in nature. at the end of the day your species can meet plenty of other benevolent ones, but can only die once.
If an alien species were equally "advanced" as us, would they be able to detect us from the closest habitable planet?
I've played enough open world survival games to know that people act first and think about the consequences later.
This video made me think we are the terrifying ones, or at least a part of humanity is, if encountering other civilizations has made so many people think it ends attacking. There are many human cultures that are friendly when encountering others. This way of thinking really seems very specific to certain kind of humans... And if they win here, colonization and start just firing weapons to other civilizations eager to meet us, seem like a possibility. So a human civilization is maybe the worst possibility, if other civilizations exist...
Imagine if aliens somehow connected to our internet and watched all these videos about aliens that we’ve made.
That’s a funny thought, they’re just like “look how this human tried to draw us” 👽 “man, they really need to start advancing more, we don’t look like that” 👽
Besides the existential questions proposed in the vid, can we all agree that this is Kurzgesagt's best-animated video yet?
Yeah it's pretty amazing.
Hehe someone's porgie has a 🥖
@PixelCrunch they mean lorsque l'intrus commet des actes malveillants
But there were no burning birds…
I love that this was tackled in Stellaris! There's a new Origin in the game called Fear of the Dark wherein Venus was totally destroyed by a freak asteroid causing a huge division on Earth on whether the incident is a malicious attack or just a freak accident and is nothing more than mere paranoia. This division led to a lot of people terraforming and colonizing Mars in order to escape Earth because of the belief that somewhere out there, there is someone purposely targeting our home planet in order to destroy it. Ok this next bit is a spoiler so don't continue if you have plans on playing the game with this Origin. Basically, after years of exploration and progress in the game, you'll later find out that in a nearby solar system, an unknown species of alien had built a huge space cannon and was using all their resources in their home system to create huge bullets to attack nearby systems that they had detected that contains life. However, because of the unique gravity of Jupiter on our Sol system that protects us from most asteroids, this huge bullet that was aimed at Earth was actually reorientated by the gravity into destroying Venus instead. By the time that you discover this truth, the alien species that had done the attack are already dead with their home planet barren with life and the space cannon inoperable. It seems that the unknown species was so paranoid that it believed in the idea that any life out there is a threat to their existence which then led to the construction of a space cannon that will guarantee that they will be the one to do the first strike rather than be a victim of one. This paranoia however led to them depleting all the resources in their solar system without even inventing FTL travel which then caused mass extinction of their species, which is fortunate for Earth because it meant that a second strike will never arrive. At this point, the player will have a decision to turn into a Fanatic Purifier since it was proven that aliens in the galaxy are actually willing to exterminate you when given the chance and also a big "I told you so!" from the colonists who fled Earth to Mars. That, or you can stay as a Xenophile and declare that yes, some aliens are bad, but not all of them are out to get you. In the end, you'll get an achievement named "Dark Forest" if you convert into a Fanatic Purifier and eliminate all life in the galaxy, from the most advanced ones, down to the alien species that are still stuck in the stone ages.
Imagine if the aliens are actually living with us right now, but doesn't reveal themselves because of the fuckery of ourselves.
The only flaw is that this assumes that ALL alien life have a similar outlook on the universe to destroy or not to destroy. Who knows what minds of aliens are like as the entirety of their development is varies. They may have a different instinct policy for survival. Something we can't think of as we are not them going through what they have
I love you’re guys videos they genuinely make my day thank you so much